Caitie ([info]caitiedidit) wrote,
@ 2009-06-09 18:20:00
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Current mood:nervous

blah blah blah bummer post
So I was reading [info]cereta's post about rape and why men aren't helping to stop it. I like it because it holds men accountable for helping prevent rape when society treats issues like rape and sexual assault as exclusively women's issues. People talk about how many women are raped, and we should definitely talk about that. But we should ALSO be talking about how many men rape women, and that almost never gets talked about in the mainstream. And I want to talk about it too, apologizes in advance for the weirdest segue ever.

Okay, you know what I really hate? Jokes about how girls can't go to the bathroom alone, how we move in herds, etc. Those jokes have always annoyed me. Because I think they illustrate on, like, a visceral level, how much guys just. don't. get. it. They seriously don't get how women are socialized to move in packs and do things together -- and even if they do make that connection, they don't get WHY we are socialized to do that. Newsflash: it's to keep us safe FROM YOU.

I have typed up this rant before (in entries and replies) but never actually posted it because I feared the inevitable responses of "But I go to the bathroom by myself!" or "I've never gone to the bathroom with a friend because I'm worried about my safety!" or "I go out alone and am never scared!" And I would pretty much agree with all of those comments. I don't make a conscious decision to accompany a friend to the bathroom (exceptions for clubs, bars, some rest stops, and generally seedy places) because I fear for her or my safety. I do not live in constant fear. I run and walk alone and always have. I go out at night by myself and do not think anything of it. I'm not nervous about walking through parking garages or parking lots or stairwells. I like to be on my own, and I am confident in my ability to take care of myself.

But the thought of what could happen is almost always there, even if it's at the very back of my head. I'll be walking alone at night from Point A to Point B and think about what I would do if that guy lounging over there against that post started following me. I've gotten off a bus early at a more crowded stop because a man was making me uncomfortable. I've kept pepper spray on my key chain and my keys in my hand in the parking garage. I've felt startled when I've taken a stairwell late at night and passed a guy coming down the other way. I've jumped out of my skin when I was passed by a guy on the seldom-used trail I used to walk on at my old place. It seems like female hikers and runners and bikers go missing all the time, so yeah, I've thought about it. And it's sort of like I'm thinking to myself: "I shouldn't be doing this. I know this isn't smart. I'm taking a risk." But I do it anyway, and sometimes I even get almost a resentful, defiant thrill in doing these not necessarily very smart things. Even though I know (statistically speaking and from experience) that I'm about a zillion times more likely to be hurt/skeezed on by an acquaintance or someone I'm on a date with than I am likely to be accosted by some weirdo popping out of the bushes. But it's still there.

And I think back to the night I got really really really wasted in college. My friends left me at the party, and I didn't know anyone. I was mad, and I wasn't thinking straight, so I decided to walk back to campus on my own. At 3am. It was a long, cold walk so I'd mostly sobered up by the end of it, and I remember thinking: "Wow, you're stupid. If something happens to you, you deserve it for being so ridiculously fucking stupid." Obviously I was fine, but there was a tense moment when a car pulled up to the curb and a guy rolled down his window. He just wanted directions, but there were definitely a few seconds of: holy shit, this is it, I can't run in these shoes so I need to kick them off, etc.

And it makes me think back to all the times my parents have told me to "take your sister with you," or the time I showed my mom the trail where I walked and she proceeded to freak the hell out and tell everyone she knew that her DAUGHTER was walking a trail ALONE in the WOODS at DUSK and could they even believe it, or how she still tells me not to walk alone. I think about how my sister would call me on Tuesday and Thursday nights so I could talk to her while she walked from her night class to the parking garage, and we'd chat until she was safely in her car. Safety In Numbers. I mean, that's how I was brought up. I imagine that's how a lot of you were brought up too.

So whenever I hear a guy all like LOL GIRLS ALWAYS GO TO THE BATHROOM TOGETHER, I kinda want to punch him in the face. No, it's not because we have to do everything together, jackass. It's not because we don't ever shut up, and it's certainly not because we're talking about you (although maybe we totally are). It's because in the society we've grown up in, we've been taught -- and way too many of us have learned first hand -- that we're not safe when we're alone. And so you've got to spend your entire life being Smart and making Smart Decisions, and even that might not be enough because it's almost always the devil you know. And then if there's that one time (like you didn't eat enough at dinner and end up way too drunk at a dumb party where you get separated from your friends) that you're not smart and something awful happens to you... well, it's your fault for being Stupid. Because the responsibility for preventing rape is 100andfuckingten% on us, and that's really really really wrong.

I've never heard a single person in my life say "she was asking for it," but I have heard people say "she should have been more careful." She shouldn't have drunk so much. She shouldn't have been doing drugs. She shouldn't have trusted a stranger. She shouldn't have taken that ride. She shouldn't have gone into his room. She shouldn't have been walking alone at night. She should have taken a friend. She shouldn't have gone to see her ex. If she wanted to avoid strangers harassing her, she shouldn't have worn that outfit. It all amounts to pretty much the same thing. As a society, we place the responsibility for preventing rape squarely on women. And we internalize that and deal with that on a daily basis. But men don't have to, and they aren't asked to. Which is why I was glad to read [info]cereta's post, because it is high past time to demand that men start sharing in the responsibility of preventing rape.




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[info]themis
2009-06-10 02:09 am UTC (link)
Oh my god.

So, okay, I never even thought about the going to the bathroom in groups thing as a safety issue [except in places when it was obviously a safety concern, which I think is the only time I do it?] but you are so right and this is a great post.

[info]cereta's post is great too. I remember at the UN there was a thing where someone said, "We need to stop talking about 'violence against women' and name it for what it is - men's violence against women". It's important to hold people responsible for their actions, and their privilege.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 02:58 am UTC (link)
"We need to stop talking about 'violence against women' and name it for what it is - men's violence against women". It's important to hold people responsible for their actions, and their privilege.

Pretty much exactly.

Also, I love how this icon you made me worked for this post on several levels.

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[info]rez_lo
2009-06-10 02:09 am UTC (link)
Excellent rant. Glad you posted it. And yeah, as you said, the truth is, you can spend your life being "smart" and observing all those shoulds and should nots and guess what: rapists rape those women, too.

I do think it would be a huge public service if someone were to put together some comprehensive set of flash-cards or something, each card showing whatever statistic it is that rebuts whatever tired, arrogant, boneheaded assertion is being trotted out at any given time in a "discussion" about rape. My personal experience matches that of most of the commenters on Lucy's post: most men, even the well-intentioned ones, are clueless assholes about this stuff. I no longer engage with them on the subject; I'm too tired.

>>I can't run in these shoes

And that's a whole other thing. Don't get me started or I'll be raving about self-crippling as beauty standard and the culturally enforced availability of the woman's body as sexual fetish and we'll be on to footbinding and tight-lacing before you can even blink.

GAH.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 02:51 am UTC (link)
I am glad I posted it too, because I almost didn't. Self-deletion is most of the time, in my case, a good thing. But I sort of wanted to say this even though it is nothing new.

My personal experience matches that of most of the commenters on Lucy's post: most men, even the well-intentioned ones, are clueless assholes about this stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I recognize that we all have clueless, well-intentioned asshole tendencies, and I have been called on some myself over the years. But there is an awful lot of Not Getting It going on in those comments.

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TOO MANY MANS
[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Also! Have you seen this?

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[info]keenai
2009-06-10 02:18 am UTC (link)
Thanks for posting that link and thanks for posting this. I have been thinking about something similar later and would like to link to this IF you want to make it public for that purpose. If not, I understand.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 02:43 am UTC (link)
I unlocked it! Really, I just needed a couple people to tell me it was not crazy or anything. And I will look forward to your posts, which are always very good. I actually almost mentioned your domestic violence post in this one but it was so long already...

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[info]futurestarlette
2009-06-10 05:11 am UTC (link)
Last summer I worked at a restaurant, and another waitress who worked the same dinner shifts and I would often talk on our cell phones while we walked home after closing. One day one of the waiters was teasing us about this, asking how we had so much to say to each other even after an 8-hour shift together. When we explained that it wasn't so much the conversation as the knowing someone has your back while you're walking alone in poorly-lit areas after midnight, the guy was honestly surprised. He even offered to give us rides home so we wouldn't have to do that anymore.

[info]cereta's post was great, although when I read through some of the comments it started to bug me that people were discussing men only as attackers, and not as potential preventers of rape. Someone even said they believed 9/10 men would rape given the chance.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't believe that. I think the majority of men, if they, say, found a girl passed out on their bed, would wake her up and offer her the couch and a spare blanket or call her a cab.

However, if they saw a girl passed out in another man's bed, say one of the minority who would rape, they wouldn't get involved.

I think in teaching the majority of men out there who are decent people about the dangers women face, and train them to respond when they see a women in a dangerous situation, a lot of rapes could be prevented. Rape is a very iffy subject. Often women avoid discussing it in front of men, and if they do only in the context of blaming them when what's really needed is education.

Or perhaps having never been raped or attacked I just have a much too rosy view of things. :/

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 03:38 pm UTC (link)
However, if they saw a girl passed out in another man's bed, say one of the minority who would rape, they wouldn't get involved.

Which is totally the crux of the issue. Men basically think that as long as they're aware that No Means No, maybe if they look out for the women in their lives... job well done. But that's just not enough. Like, not even close.

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[info]kitty_ryan
2009-06-10 06:23 am UTC (link)
And so you've got to spend your entire life being Smart and making Smart decisions, and even that might not be enough because it's almost always the devil you know. And then if there's that one time (like you didn't eat enough at dinner and end up way too drunk at a stupid party where you get separated from your friends) that you're not Smart and something awful happens to you... well, it's your fault for being Stupid. Because the responsibility for preventing rape is 100andfuckingten% on us, and that's really really really wrong.

I can't really add to that, but can't help but highlight it because you've expressed that so perfectly.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 03:39 pm UTC (link)
*hugs you*

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[info]wottie
2009-06-10 07:23 am UTC (link)
That thing where you walk down the street and think about what you'd do if someone attacks you: that's me. All the time. And I agree so much with this post - that even when we don't say it, we place the burden of 'being careful' on women when dammit, it's not about not being careful enough, it's about how we have to be careful because there are people who would hurt others.

Thanks for writing this! It's really thought-evoking.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-10 03:41 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for reading!

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[info]spectralbovine
2009-06-10 06:54 pm UTC (link)
Huh, I had never thought about the girls-going-to-bathrooms-together thing in that way before. Social conditioning is a powerful thing.

This post almost almost made me cry, by the way. I hate that it has to be like this for you and all other women.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-11 12:47 am UTC (link)
Thanks for commenting! (I actually saw your post on friendsfriends last night and was heartened by it, so thanks for that too.)

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[info]spectralbovine
2009-06-11 05:45 am UTC (link)
You're welcome. I'm glad it made an impression.

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[info]syderia
2009-06-10 08:20 pm UTC (link)
Here by way of [info]lodessa
But the thought is almost always there, even if it's at the very back of my head. I'll be walking alone at night from Point A to Point B and think about what I would do if that guy lounging over there against that post started following me. I've gotten off a bus early at a more crowded stop because a man was unnerving me. I've kept pepper spray on my key chain and my keys in my hand in the parking garage.
Word.

But, you know, I had never made the link with the fact that girls go to the bathroom together. (OTOH, I've always socialized more with guys than with girls.)

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-11 12:40 am UTC (link)
Yeah, it's not something I think about consciously. Plus it's an annoying stereotype, and I know a lot of women defy it. But I definitely think the tendency has a lot more to do with the way so many girls are socialized to stick together (for safety reasons) than it has to do with our innate need for constant chatter or gossip or whatever reason it is people think girls go to the bathroom together for.

Thanks for commenting.

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[info]19_99
2009-06-10 10:47 pm UTC (link)
Well said. You're not crazy.

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-11 12:30 am UTC (link)
Thanks!

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[info]revertigo
2009-06-10 11:32 pm UTC (link)
It's like feminism week on my flist. AWESOME.
It's always girls pointing fingers at girls, too, and it's unfortunate.

Who does it hurt when girls go to the bathroom together? Why is it a concern? If a responsible woman wants to have a little fun and wears a sexy outfit to go out, who does it hurt exactly? Why is the blame always on the woman when she does harmless things, but gets harmed?

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[info]caitiedidit
2009-06-11 12:29 am UTC (link)
It's always girls pointing fingers at girls, too, and it's unfortunate.

Yeah, when I was reading [info]cereta's post, a lot of girls talked about how it was easier for them personally to discuss abuse and rape with men because the women in their lives were much less sympathetic and more likely to rationalize what happened. And that made me sad.

GOOD QUESTIONS, ALL OF THEM.

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